‘Saint Brigid?… She Was Such A Legend”: Katie Boyle Talks About Her EdFringe Show Roe vs Wade Versus Katie Boyle

Content warning: abortion

Ahead of her debut at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, with Roe Vs. Wade versus Katie, The Indiependent caught up with New York-based, Irish Comedian, Katie Boyle. 

The show comes fresh off the back of her second stand-up special, Terapy, and promises to be a ”vulnerable and unapologetically honest social commentary focusing on womanhood, religion, abortion, and identity” told through the ”eyes of a New York-based Irish immigrant who thought she was moving somewhere more progressive… until she realised it wasn’t”.

Within the interview, Katie discusses the inspiration behind Roe Vs. Wade versus Katie, her experience as an Irish Immigrant in New York and how the rise of the conservative only means one thing for women across the world. 

THE INDIEPENDENT: First of all, could you tell me a bit about the origins behind Roe Vs. Wade versus Katie?

Katie: I had to get an abortion in the United States and that is what inspired the whole show. I didn’t realise how much abortion had strung my life together because when I grew up in Ireland it was a topic that I was so aware of—I even had family members who worked in abortion rights. Then, I moved to America and that right was taken away from so many women. So, I decided to write a show based around my relationship with abortion. 

I throw in a bit of Irish folklore and lots of stories, such as how I was dating a guy who was a republican and the way that kind of exposed me to these shocking conversations and mindsets. Then, I talk about my own abortion with a guy who I am still with now, who was a teen crush that I reconnected with at a show—love, abortion, sex and immigration all rolled into one!

A lot of people talk about when being a comic, the key ingredient is to be honest, but how does it feel being so honest and open for others to see when it’s about something so personal?

I feel it is rewarding more than anything, though. If you are honest about things that people are scared to talk about, for instance, I grew up in a time where despite starting to progress, Ireland was still this quiet, shameful space, then I went to New York and they were loud and honest, which I loved. 

I brought that honesty with me back home and put it into this show. Usually, when you talk about yourself out loud and people go “oh that’s cool, that’s good for you”, it tends to be they are the ones who are worried about talking about their own stuff. So, at least if they hear you being open about sex or abortion they might feel encouraged to talk about it too!

Did growing up in Catholic Ireland provide lots of material and shape the comedy you produce for the stage today?

100%. My parents were forced to get married because they had me and in Catholicism that was seen as the “right thing to do”. Then, they got a divorce when it finally became legal and so I grew up seeing how Catholicism can affect your day-to-day family life. In saying that, I also grew up in a time where Ireland was trying to get away from the church, so naturally both of those situations together give you quite a lot of material to work with. 

You moved to New York 9 years ago. Did any of your influences change and did you find new ways of creating your comedy when moving there? 

Definitely. New York, like Ireland, is also its own progressive bubble within America. They are very sex positive and their culture doesn’t really allow for shame. Even compliments: in Ireland you are meant to dismiss the compliment, whereas in New York they just think you’re being rude if you don’t take praise too well. 

Edinburgh is no stranger to risk taking and meaningful performances, especially from comics. Is that part of the reason you are bringing the show there? 

Well, I didn’t really see how I could put in jokes about me having to get an abortion, if I was performing in America and it only happened in February. However, my manager told me about how the opportunity had come in for me to do the Fringe Festival. I just thought, “okay, this is the perfect chance to get the show and myself ready for when I go and talk about this to the rest of the world. If it wasn’t for the Fringe, I probably wouldn’t be putting the show out on stage!

Does the live reaction from the audience free or fear you when producing a show like this with such an honest and important message at its core? 

Definitely free. I think every single comedian, if they are being honest with themselves, uses getting up on stage as a form of therapy. It’s the opposite of us having to pay to go to see a therapist—we are getting paid to have the audience sit and be our therapist. It’s like medicine, soul freeing medicine. Even if the show doesn’t go the way you want, it is still freeing because at least you went out on stage and did it. 

That brings me nicely to my next question. If a show is not going to plan and a joke doesn’t land it can be down to there being a clash between Irish, British and American culture. How do you navigate the cultural clashes that may arise from the differences between American and Irish Humour, if you feel there are any?

Yeah, I guess it’s not as much of a clash anymore because everybody is able to watch comedians from all over the world thanks to social media platforms. So, in that way, people are getting used to different styles but the big difference is language. In America, I often have to change the words I use or the way I say something—a joke might work there but not in Ireland, vice versa. 

I often think maybe it is because Irish people are more comfortable with their humour but maybe it could just be that they get a geography reference that Americans don’t get. I tell a story in the show about reuniting with my crush in Rotterdam. That’s not supposed to be a joke but it gets a bit of a reaction in Ireland because they just find it amusing—like Rotterdam of all places. Whereas in America they say nothing because Rotterdam could be just down the road from them, it means nothing. 

Comedy can be quite a contentious ground that can often offend easily without that being the intention. How do you negotiate being as realistic as possible in your storytelling, whilst remaining sensitive to your audience? 

I don’t think I have any hate in my heart but of course you don’t know how someone might perceive something you say. However, for the most part, if I say something that people aren’t on board with, it’s usually because they don’t have the same morals as me. 

I might say something like “oh it’s okay to have an abortion” or “oh it’s okay to be a woman”, nothing too extreme, so if people don’t like that, then we probably don’t have the same morals. At the minute, a lot of the negativity is coming from people who are Pro-Life and Pro-Christian, who obviously don’t align with my morals—if I offend them that’s grand! 

What do you hope your audiences take away from Roe. Vs. Wade versus Katie? 

My big thing is to remind people that it’s okay to talk about all types of feelings that come with getting an abortion. It feels like abortions are only accepted as trauma porn—it’s time to change that. Women can only talk about their abortions if they are sad or upset or feeling regret. The whole show is there to talk about my life experience and show that I am just a regular person who was going about life, who then had an abortion and realised how lucky they were to have that option. 

I also hate the narrative that abortions are a walk in the park. The people who think that we can just choose to have one every Tuesday if we wanted to, just because we agree with abortion — it’s bullshit. So, I want to give insight and education. The show demonstrates that even at 34 I was not educated enough because of society. I grew up at a time when the morning after pill was still a dirty little secret whereas I thought it was the nuclear bomb of contraception!

I think education on abortion and reminding people of the power that comes with a woman’s right to choose is so needed and relevant in this current climate, isn’t it? 

Absolutely. The show is a reminder that people aren’t educated enough. There should be no shame on women and we should trust that the woman has made the right decision for her because having an abortion is not easy. It is a whole day off work, you can’t eat for 24 hours, which as an Irish person I found particularly dramatic and I couldn’t have a bath—I don’t particularly like having baths but what if I had wanted to!

I want to show people that, yes I have had an abortion but I am also this silly human. I don’t think anyone is going to walk away from the show thinking “I hate that bitch”. I think, well I hope, they are going to walk away thinking how much my story makes sense. There are people who have gone too far with their views but they also do not have the education but often you are trying to reach the people who are on the fence. 

I guess that comes from education but also speaking about the unspoken—going beneath the surface when talking about abortion, sex education, right? 

Exactly that. I was advocating for abortion rights for women years before my own abortion and even I didn’t know what was involved to that extent. In Ireland, I didn’t have any sex education. We had one nurse come in and tell us that if you have anal sex, your organs will fall out of your arse—seriously crazy things to say to children. It was all about shaming not educating. It left me terrified too. I thought I wouldn’t be able to ever sneeze again!

We know there has been a rise in the conservative across the world, particularly the USA. How do you feel this will continue to affect women’s rights?

It’s really scary. In one way, you don’t want to overreact but then so much has happened in the space of like eight months it’s hard not to react in the way that we are. I don’t know the answer to that. I hope that everything the likes of Trump promised, he doesn’t commit on and that makes the pendulum swing back but other than that I don’t know. However, what I do know from being a woman in comedy and obviously a woman living in America is that you live in constant worry about what happens if something happens to you or a friend and they can’t seek the medical treatment that they need. 

I also have to be honest and say that I feel men are more brazen. When I posted about abortion stuff I got death threats. However, what made it more scary was that one of the guys who sent me a death threat was from The Bronx and me and my boyfriend could pinpoint how close he was to me and where he lived. So, I feel men are just going to keep getting more public about their hate towards women and not worry about the consequences. 

What’s next after Roe. Vs. Wade versus Katie? 

Gigs. Just lots and lots of gigs. I have shows coming up in the states and in Canada, followed by a big show back at home in November. I released a special this summer online, which is a different hour to what I am doing on the Fringe. 

Finally, I want to end the interview with you telling our readers all about Saint Brigid, the historical figure you said you would love to go to the pub with in your British Comedy Guide Interview! 

She was such a fucking legend! Saint Brigid was part of Pagan Ireland and when Christinaity came over they needed to get Pagan Ireland into Christian Catholicism, so they took some of the stories they would already know and “christianised” them, so they made Saint Brigid a Saint. She had so many of these stories that were referred to as miracles instead of Pagan powers. One of them was that she gave the first record abortion in Ireland in 500AD and the other was that she could make water into beer, so I call her the Irish Jesus! 

Katie Boyle: Roe Vs. Wade versus Katie will run at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival until 24 August at Monkey Barrel – The Tron. 

Interview Conducted by Cory Gourley

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